اودن ...
اودن ..........
اودن ................
آخر اودا کار خودش رو کرد...که چندبار چپتر رو پشت هم بخونم و اشک تو چشمام جمع بشه
یکی از بچه ها بحث جالبی از ردیت فرستاد...میفرستم و بعد نظر خودمم میگم :
[14/02, 16:54] Luffy Khan: Oden is too stupid, Luffy is like 10 x smarter than Oden.
Vivi was making the same mistake as Oden did in the last 5 years.
Thinking they could save everyone by themselves without people dying. Not going straight to the source.
Meanwhile, their country's people were suffering.
Unlike Oden, Vivi had Luffy to point out the flaw's in her thinking. Oden did not have Luffy to advise him, so he failed.
Luffy would never fall for the tricks Oden did. This is proven is impel Down and mairneford.
Ex Crocodile- Luffy never trusted him one bit and was proven right but Luffy caught on and prepared.
1) When Toki was dropped off in Wano, his retainers said they needed help with the problems in Wano. Even Oden could tell how bad it was
Luffy would stay, beat Orochi with the Roger Pirate crews help, before continuing on his journey to Raftel.
2) Oden and Vivi thought the same way and made the same mistakes. Vivi thought she could win without abyone dying, mean while more people were suffering due to her not taking out the source of the problem.
Luffy told her that way of thinking would not get her anywhere and would do more harm than good.
3) Oden was so selfish that he never accepted help, when the Roger Pirates offered to help clean up Wano and open the borders
Luffy would have accepted the help to fixing Wano's problems right away.
Bonus
4) Tricked by Orochi told when Orochi revealed all the bad he had done to Oden's family and Wano's country.
Luffy in Impel Down never forgot Crocodile or believed Crocodile when he said he would not cause any trouble or whatever lie he told.
The mistakes written above make Luffy look like Einstine compared to Oden.
[14/02, 16:54] Luffy Khan: -
.....I think you have the right of it here. You know you need help when you are clearly more gullable then freaking Monkey D. Luffy of all people.
[14/02, 16:55] Luffy Khan: -
I think you made a good point about Oden and Vivi and I personally think it help justifies Oden action. Well, I won't deny their stupidity but that's because we, the readers, look at their situations from outside and that we already knew the results.
What makes Oden, Vivi, or even Riku different than Luffy is that they have a lot more burden to shoulder. By this I mean their country and people. 'I'll do whatever it needs to save even just one of my people, even I'll look pathetic in their eyes' is what made them good kings/ rulers, and that's why their people (and us) like them.
You're right that Luffy is the one that told Vivi about her innocence. But Vivi was too the one who teach the most important lesson to Luffy that 'violence sometimes is not the solution and bowing is not necessary a bad thing '.
[14/02, 16:55] Luffy Khan: Shanks taught Luffy violence is not always the right answer.
Oden and Vivi wanted to save a few while the rest of the country was suffering.
Luffy told Vivi that her apprpach would not work, as to many people were suffering, and that she should go directly to the source of the problem.
Not only that but Vivi also thought she could do everything by herself.
[14/02, 16:56] Luffy Khan: I don't think Luffy learned about being a good leader from Shanks at that time. He was just a kid. Besides, Shanks just didn't care about those bandits (the same way Luffy didn't care about Bellamy). Vivi was the one who pointed out to Luffy that he needed more to be captain and taught him to bow to people when Nami's life was on the line. We even saw him did that many time after that (Iceberg, Hancock,...).
As for Oden and Vivi, they can't led people die if there's anything they can do to prevent that, the number is not important. Their logic and their nature as a ruler can't led they do that. In Oden case, he was just deceived (I agree he was stupid in believing that snake Orochi). Yes, people are suffering but they're still alive. He believed that by dancing for 5 years, he can save his people. If he fight Kaido at that time he might probably win, but at what cost? Yeah, and when he saw that his peaceful way didn't work, then he went for the source of the problem.
Well yeah, Vivi was kinda idiot who thought she can do anything by herself. But I what else would she do in that situation? She was lucky that she met the strawhats that kindly gave her a hand and taught her to rely on her friends.
This is my view about this situation which you guys might not agree. I don't deny that their peaceful methods were the best thing, but just want to point out that their decisions were understandable. If a fully-armed thief broke into my house and ask me to dance to save my family, I would
dance till I drop.
بحث جالبی بود! مخصوصا اینکه در مورد پیشرفت شخصیتی کاراکترها هم صحبت کرده بودن(اونجا که در مورد جون نامی گفته بود، کجا منظورش بود؟)
ولی به نظرم واقعا همچنان اودن اشتباه کرد همونجا نجنگید! اودن 5سال رقصید، ولی توی این 5سال چقدر ملت و کشورش بیشتر به فنا رفتن...
البته من خودم همین دیدگاه رو دارم که درست نیست بین جون یک عده تصمیم گیری کرد(یعنی بگم ok من اینجا میجنگم و ممکنه این 100نفر تو قصر بمیرن، ولی از مرگ هزار نفر تو چند سال آینده محافظت میکنم. ) و اگر جای اودن بودم احتمالا منم میرقصیدم
ولی با این حال اودن رو آدم کله شق تری میدیدم و فکر میکردم دقیقا مثل لوفی خر بشه تو چنین مواقعی و بزنه به سیم آخر نه بکشه عقب
بهتر بگم،اونچنان مسئولیت پذیر و آدم عاقل(حالا اینجا میگن برعکس عاقل نبوده که نجنگیده) نمیدیدمش
(گرچه توی این تصمیم گیری ها هم اگر 1آشنا/دوست/فامیل vs صد نفر غریبه باشه، اون یک نفر رو انتخاب میکنم♂)
اما به هر حال... اودن و این شرط یک ساعته!
و حتما 1ساعت دووم میاره!
و... الان واقعا فکر میکنم جاسوس نداریم! امکان نداره جاسوس داشته باشیم بین 9نفر، و شینوبو هم نیست دیگه
و... این چپتر و بقیه ی فلش بک ها اگر تو یک ولوم قرار بگیرن... اینم میره تو لیستی که دوست دارم بگیرمش!
اصلا فلش بکی که وایت بیرد داشته باشه، داستان زندگی راجر رو روایت کنه! و از این طرف هم اودن
... واقعا مگه میشه بی خیالش شد؟
گرچه وانو باید مبارزه خفن از زورو هم داشته باشیم... لعنت بهش! خو نیست پولش
(برعکس گفتم فکر کنم
)
... حتی اگر اشتباهی نوشته باشن Zolo
ولی اون مدلش فرق داشت این حد از خیانت، دروغگویی، پستی و بایکوت اطلاعاتی توی دردسروزا نبود و به جاش یه چیزای دیگه غالب بودن)
Google